Poll

Which story arc would you want to see most used for RP when Stella Bellum goes Live?

Canon (Films + TCW + Rebels + Post-2012 Novels)
12 (24%)
Legends (All Star Wars lore Pre-2012)
22 (44%)
Doesn't matter to me!
16 (32%)

Total Members Voted: 50

Author Topic: Canon or Legends?  (Read 1973 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Aowin

  • Advisor
  • ***
  • Posts: 332
  • Force: 13
    • View Profile
Re: Canon or Legends?
« Reply #20 on: 08-01-17, 00:03:45 »
Actually, nothing pertaining to Star Wars Galaxies has really changed with regard to canon, even with the Disney acquisition of Lucasfilm and the Story Group's invalidation of the Expanded Universe canon. The reason I say this is because the only canon elements of Star Wars Galaxies were "the stories and general background information," which we could largely interpret as being anything that came from the films. Everything else, such as our player characters and any gameplay was always considered non-canon, even under the Expanded Universe. I'll post the Holocron and how it separated the various levels of canon before Lucasfilm scrapped it:


    G-canon was George Lucas canon: Considered absolute canon, it included Episodes I–VI (the released films at that time), and any statements by George Lucas (including unpublished production notes from him or his production department that are never seen by the public). Elements originating with Lucas in the scripts, filmed deleted scenes, film novelizations, reference books, radio plays, and other primary sources were also G-canon when not in contradiction with the released films. G-canon overrode the lower levels of canon when there was a contradiction.

    T-canon was Television canon: Referred to the canon level comprising the animated film Star Wars: The Clone Wars and the two television series Star Wars: The Clone Wars and the planned live-action series.

    C-canon was Continuity canon: Consisting of materials from the Star Wars expanded universe including the Star Wars Holiday Special, books, comics, and games bearing the label of Star Wars. Games and RPG sourcebooks were a special case; the stories and general background information were themselves fully C-canon, but the other elements such as character/item statistics and gameplay were, with few exceptions, N-canon.

    S-canon was Secondary canon: Covering the same medium as C-canon, it was immediately superseded by anything in higher levels of canon in any place where two elements contradicted each other. The non-contradicting elements were still a canon part of the Star Wars universe. This included certain elements of a few N-canon stories.

    N-canon was Non-canon: "What-if" stories (such as stories published under the Star Wars: Infinities label), crossover appearances (such as the Star Wars character appearances in Soulcalibur IV), game statistics, and anything else directly contradicted by higher canon ends up here. N-canon was the only level that was not considered official canon by Lucasfilm. Any published material that contradicted things established in G-canon and T-canon was considered N-canon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_canon

Personally, I will just roleplay as I did when SWG was live. Considering SWG takes place between Episode IV and Episode V, the majority of canon is still largely the same and unchanged. Since player characters were always non-canon anyway, I will merely build stories from the game and perhaps extend to Legends for more. The new canon, as some have stated, is problematic due to various aspects being removed, even if it's largely minor changes that don't really change the overall experience.
« Last Edit: 08-01-17, 00:06:18 by aowin »


All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

First Daggerfall Emperor of Cyrodiil on Bloodthorn Campaign in ESO (2014):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2juurXQyAtQ

Voted best PvP Light Side Jedi and Melee PvPer on Shadowfire in SWG (2009, 2010)

Offline Zogeta

  • Community Member
  • Posts: 24
  • Force: 3
    • View Profile
Re: Canon or Legends?
« Reply #21 on: 08-01-17, 18:45:39 »
Definitely a fan of Pre-Disney canon. Makes the most sense with a lot of characters and instances in the game, and Disney could easily introduce new storylines in their canon that might contradict things in SWG. So that's how I'll be roleplaying.

Offline verzio

  • Community Member
  • Posts: 20
  • Force: 1
  • Tsdazzzin Neceynic of DoL, Light, EU-Chimaera.
    • View Profile
Re: Canon or Legends?
« Reply #22 on: 10-01-17, 14:55:47 »
Definitely helped my plans as an RP constructor to know what everyone's thoughts are on this. I know there will definitely have to be some 'excuses' made for the uncertainty of some of the lore thanks to new canon, especially origin stories such as how the jedi came to being etc. Thanks for your help!
I apologise if have I upset some people by construction of this post, I was merely curious and was unaware of any previous discussion on this topic.

Offline drannon

  • Community Member
  • Posts: 13
  • Force: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Canon or Legends?
« Reply #23 on: 10-01-17, 17:04:53 »
There is absolutely no reason to apologize.  It's healthy to have discussions pertaining to lore on a roleplay server, especially with SWG considering the game drew from so many different sources.  If people wanna throw a tantrum just because someone disagrees with them about lore then that's on them, not you.  In the end it's on each player to have the intestinal fortitude to 'agree to disagree' when it comes to what's acknowledged in their personal roleplay.

Frankly, anyone who takes issue with whatever canon a player decides to abide by needs to ask themselves this question:  Does your toon have a good reason for knowing who built the death star, who stole the plans, what Luke's been up to, what the Sith were doing a few thousand years ago, etc., or are you just trying to impress people by ICly dropping meta-bombs?  There's so much more to roleplay than making someone wait 10-15 minutes for you to respond because you're alt-tabbed and scrolling through Wookieepedia.
« Last Edit: 10-01-17, 17:09:52 by drannon »
I don't have a problem with alcohol.  I have a problem without it!

Offline OneWithTheForks

  • Community Veteran
  • **
  • Posts: 118
  • Force: 6
  • In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
    • View Profile
Re: Canon or Legends?
« Reply #24 on: 10-01-17, 17:38:25 »
^This.

As an aside, something I thought could be fun from an RP perspective is incorporating Legends as just that: legends. Look at how much rumor, misinformation, and conspiracy is floating around in the real world. Even events that only happened a few years ago can see people disagreeing on what really happened, much less things that happened hundreds or thousands of years ago.

You want to sit around a cantina telling stories about Darth Vader having a Secret Apprentice? Why not? You, the player, might consider that canon, but the person you're telling it to might consider it non-canon. But would the character know, or even care, whether it's true or not? To them, it's just a rumor they heard from some crazy drunk spacer.

I mean, it probably wouldn't work with everything, but incorporating both canons in a "smart" way—where possible—could add a little bit of flavor. Or it could fail miserably, I dunno. :P
[TC Toons]

Gavriel Roake - Squint Pilot, Storm Five, Proud Member of the Empire's Finest  -

Jenniveve K'Barrek - Problem Solver, Problem Starter, Snarky Captain of the Bad Luck Baby -

Offline drannon

  • Community Member
  • Posts: 13
  • Force: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Canon or Legends?
« Reply #25 on: 10-01-17, 18:42:55 »
I like that idea.
I don't have a problem with alcohol.  I have a problem without it!

Offline verzio

  • Community Member
  • Posts: 20
  • Force: 1
  • Tsdazzzin Neceynic of DoL, Light, EU-Chimaera.
    • View Profile
Re: Canon or Legends?
« Reply #26 on: 10-01-17, 18:43:33 »
^This.

As an aside, something I thought could be fun from an RP perspective is incorporating Legends as just that: legends. Look at how much rumor, misinformation, and conspiracy is floating around in the real world. Even events that only happened a few years ago can see people disagreeing on what really happened, much less things that happened hundreds or thousands of years ago.

You want to sit around a cantina telling stories about Darth Vader having a Secret Apprentice? Why not? You, the player, might consider that canon, but the person you're telling it to might consider it non-canon. But would the character know, or even care, whether it's true or not? To them, it's just a rumor they heard from some crazy drunk spacer.

I mean, it probably wouldn't work with everything, but incorporating both canons in a "smart" way—where possible—could add a little bit of flavor. Or it could fail miserably, I dunno. :P

This is exactly what I planned to do! I roleplay with a smuggler and a jedi, and the jedi lore is now all a bit fuzzy. Did the Jedi originate on Ilum? Or did the Jedi break away from the clan Je'daii on Tython? Instead of contradicting each other, it would be much more fun to IC speculate about the true history of the jedi. Perhaps the records of their history are now in the control of the emperor? Who knows! It'll be fun to speculate.

Offline blacksword

  • Community Member
  • Posts: 6
  • Force: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Canon or Legends?
« Reply #27 on: 11-01-17, 08:06:58 »
SWG has always been, in practice, essentially it's own AU. I really wouldn't worry about which lore to follow. Draw from whatever material inspires you, but make your own stories. If someone doesn't like your interpretation of the GFFA, they don't have to roleplay with you.

That being said, if I absolutely had to choose, I'd go with legends since that was what I grew up with and know well. I haven't kept up with all the nucanon stuff and most of the weak parts of the legends 'verse come before or after the time period of the game. Not that it matters much at this point since Disney has produced very little material set in the middle of the GCW, they seem to be focusing on the pre-Yavin and post-Endor eras.

I do have one strong recommendation though: keep the year and passage of time vague. There are four years between Yavin and Endor, but SWG ran for eight years so obviously game time does not correspond to canon time.

Offline ceman

  • Community Veteran
  • **
  • Posts: 133
  • Force: 3
    • View Profile
Re: Canon or Legends?
« Reply #28 on: 15-01-17, 02:16:44 »
Honestly, it's a mixed bag. While I liked certain aspects of Legends (Knights of the Old Republic Era), I also despise other aspects of Legends (Legacy of the Force Era).

By and large, I would have been content had Disney just retconned everything after RotJ and left everything before the films alone. I felt the lore before the films was largely superior and overall more consistent and well-written. A lot of the lore post-RotJ is bizarre, incoherent, and downright cringe-worthy.

Given that SWG takes place between Episode 4 and Episode 5, not much with regard to major lore has changed since the films are canon. Only lesser lore that was tacked on (Mara Jade being in DWB) is unequivocally non-canon.

Folks are free to roleplay what they want. I certainly will never let Disney's bone-headed decisions ever limit my ability to roleplay a character in the Star Wars Universe. I come up with my own stories anyway, with the setting of the Galactic Empire and the Rebel Alliance as a backdrop.
i cant stand the new canon's throwing out everything prerepublic era and i cant stand them throwing out thrawn. thrawn is the greatest thing in star wars. ever. no arguments will be accepted. i am a thrawn fanboi 4 life. that is one of the few things i hold in irrationally high regard.

Offline Aowin

  • Advisor
  • ***
  • Posts: 332
  • Force: 13
    • View Profile
Re: Canon or Legends?
« Reply #29 on: 15-01-17, 19:09:50 »
i cant stand the new canon's throwing out everything prerepublic era and i cant stand them throwing out thrawn. thrawn is the greatest thing in star wars. ever. no arguments will be accepted. i am a thrawn fanboi 4 life. that is one of the few things i hold in irrationally high regard.
Well, Thrawn, the character is canon again. Not so much his story, but that's better than nothing I suppose.


All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

First Daggerfall Emperor of Cyrodiil on Bloodthorn Campaign in ESO (2014):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2juurXQyAtQ

Voted best PvP Light Side Jedi and Melee PvPer on Shadowfire in SWG (2009, 2010)

Offline ceman

  • Community Veteran
  • **
  • Posts: 133
  • Force: 3
    • View Profile
Re: Canon or Legends?
« Reply #30 on: 16-01-17, 20:19:33 »
i cant stand the new canon's throwing out everything prerepublic era and i cant stand them throwing out thrawn. thrawn is the greatest thing in star wars. ever. no arguments will be accepted. i am a thrawn fanboi 4 life. that is one of the few things i hold in irrationally high regard.
Well, Thrawn, the character is canon again. Not so much his story, but that's better than nothing I suppose.
you can bet that if they portray him in the movies it wont be the same thrawn.i hope that i am wrong about thrawn though if they choose to use himwe'll see. and i also just found out about the canon change in lightsaber crystals. apparently there are no longer any synthetic crystals and the sith and the jedi fight over the same locations and apparently have been for millenia. just another thing to reduce the intricacies of the sw universe. just another chipping away at what was already a fantastic mythos around the sith's synthetic crystals and how they came to be and the impact it had on their philosophies and ethos :(.

Offline adirtygriff

  • Sr. Community Member
  • *
  • Posts: 35
  • Force: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Canon or Legends?
« Reply #31 on: 22-01-17, 03:08:01 »
personally, I prefer legends canon. It makes more sense to me. Plus the game does take place in the legends universe anyway.
I guess these are the only toons i ever play :/

G'abe Thorne - SWTOR - Begeren Colony

Josuna Thorne - SWG - Stella Bellum

Offline riggs

  • Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 52
  • Force: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Canon or Legends?
« Reply #32 on: 22-01-17, 23:18:20 »
Honestly, it's a mixed bag. While I liked certain aspects of Legends (Knights of the Old Republic Era), I also despise other aspects of Legends (Legacy of the Force Era).

By and large, I would have been content had Disney just retconned everything after RotJ and left everything before the films alone. I felt the lore before the films was largely superior and overall more consistent and well-written. A lot of the lore post-RotJ is bizarre, incoherent, and downright cringe-worthy.

Given that SWG takes place between Episode 4 and Episode 5, not much with regard to major lore has changed since the films are canon. Only lesser lore that was tacked on (Mara Jade being in DWB) is unequivocally non-canon.

Folks are free to roleplay what they want. I certainly will never let Disney's bone-headed decisions ever limit my ability to roleplay a character in the Star Wars Universe. I come up with my own stories anyway, with the setting of the Galactic Empire and the Rebel Alliance as a backdrop.

This is quite likely the most true thing on the internet, I'd say!

The minor things non-canon in game would, at first glance, be things like nightsisters (maybe they're not, but for the sake of the argument let's pretend). Since we can not make them disappear from the game, we might as well accept it as part of what is considered acceptable. Canon, then, because it was changed after the game, works perhaps best as a guideline. It does indeed feel a bit odd to exclude in-gamr existing phenomena because somebody retconned ex post facto.

Offline kraidendove

  • Sr. Community Member
  • *
  • Posts: 28
  • Force: 4
    • View Profile
Re: Canon or Legends?
« Reply #33 on: 22-01-17, 23:36:42 »
Disney "cannon" is a self imploding mess meant to sell as much merchandise as possible before they burn the franchise out.  L.A. is a puppet company now, as compared to Marvel that was intelligent in their take over negotiations.  They have already messed themselves over 4 times now in the new cannon books by contradicting themselves when a story is too hard to tie in.  Their biggest sin is the fact that Mon Mothma decided to completely demilitarize the alliance after Endor, instead of providing vital services like police protection, military/reconstruction assistance, and basic government.  Then, they had their entire government in one place with no designated survivor.

I know this is just a sci-fi franchise, but actual writers would never had made such huge plot holes.  it is indicative of Disney's grasp on the storyboard team.  The objective is to make money, not to produce good stories.  For that reason, Legends will be cannon to me.  Everything else is essentially fan fiction written by half hearted writers.
Radiant Server Survivor:

Kraiden Dove - Lvl 90 Master Smuggler/Master S.A. Pilot
Kayarrzar - Lvl 90 Shipwright/Structures Trader

Offline david665

  • Community Member
  • Posts: 15
  • Force: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Canon or Legends?
« Reply #34 on: 23-01-17, 03:38:14 »
I've spent close to 40 years reading and enjoying what became Legends. While I can enjoy the new Disney canon, to me, the older material is the true history.
Rory Koroo on Red Dwarf.
Smugglers Alliance pilot.

Offline amillo

  • Community Member
  • Posts: 7
  • Force: 0
    • View Profile
    • Savareen RP - SWG Emu
Re: Canon or Legends?
« Reply #35 on: 26-01-17, 21:34:42 »
I'm a Legends guy, so I voted Legends.

Don't get me wrong, I like some of the Disney Canon, particularly Rebels and Rogue One, but Legends is the stuff I grew up with and have learned a lot of.

Offline Earthlocked

  • Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 78
  • Force: 5
  • "Another happy landing."
    • View Profile
Re: Canon or Legends?
« Reply #36 on: 26-01-17, 22:43:55 »
For my part on this, I used to be a die-hard, militant Legends only fanatic. I refused to acknowledge the canon wipe, and I didn't want anything at all to do with anything Disney did with Star Wars.

The new canon surprised me, and I can honestly say I like it much better than the old EU. When I calmed down and looked at it rationally, the old EU- particularly in the Imperial-era and forward- was an absolute mess. Yes, we have a lot of fan-favorites, like Thrawn or Mara Jade, but a lot of it was a mash of all these different writers each wanting to put their own thing into Star Wars. That can't work, and it didn't work.

Now, we have the Lucasfilm Story Group. We've got Leland Chee, Dave Filoni, Pablo Hidalgo, et. al., all keeping things within a framework to keep it from becoming the mess that the old EU was. They're all Star Wars fans like us, and I think they're doing a great job with it.

Personally, my stance on it when it comes to my personal roleplaying is what a lot of people seem to have said already. Hard canon comes first, and Legends fills in the gaps. Also, I really like Forks' idea of role playing some of the Legends as literal legends. I think that could be really fun.

Also, to be clear, I'm not gonna bash on anybody for using Legends. We're all here to have fun, and that's totally cool. I still love a lot of Legends material, and I use it in my Edge of the Empire games pretty often.

I just really like Star Wars, you guys, and I'm pretty sure you all do too, so let's all be cool.
Kyrana Aerin
Pilot, Scoundrel, Troublemaker

Mhiri Lunallis
Assassin, Saboteur, Twi'lek Freedom Fighter

Offline thevoiddragon

  • Beta Tester
  • *
  • Posts: 215
  • Force: 10
    • View Profile
Re: Canon or Legends?
« Reply #37 on: 28-01-17, 02:10:58 »
I think so far, the only thing i've seen that i found absolutely stupid about the new canon stuff is the whole spinning lightsabers to fly like a helicopter (including sounds) thing.

Offline Earthlocked

  • Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 78
  • Force: 5
  • "Another happy landing."
    • View Profile
Re: Canon or Legends?
« Reply #38 on: 28-01-17, 02:16:33 »
I think so far, the only thing i've seen that i found absolutely stupid about the new canon stuff is the whole spinning lightsabers to fly like a helicopter (including sounds) thing.
That I can definitely agree with. Haha, I did really hate that.
Kyrana Aerin
Pilot, Scoundrel, Troublemaker

Mhiri Lunallis
Assassin, Saboteur, Twi'lek Freedom Fighter

Offline OneWithTheForks

  • Community Veteran
  • **
  • Posts: 118
  • Force: 6
  • In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
    • View Profile
Re: Canon or Legends?
« Reply #39 on: 28-01-17, 05:05:56 »
What? You didn't already know that lightsabers are aerodynamically stable?  ::)

[TC Toons]

Gavriel Roake - Squint Pilot, Storm Five, Proud Member of the Empire's Finest  -

Jenniveve K'Barrek - Problem Solver, Problem Starter, Snarky Captain of the Bad Luck Baby -